This one is for PZ Myers

[pyesetz]

According to a recent online poll by PollingPoint, over half of all people who go to church frequently think President Bush's moral values are just like theirs.  This is the best evidence I've ever seen for why organized religions should be banned!

*Grumble* Why can't PollingPoint use decent permalink URL's for their results?  And why don't they say *anything* about how recent the "recent polls" are?
Edit: Duh!  The footnote at the bottom says "February 2005 to July 2005".  Thanks, PZ!

Comments

[xolo.livejournal.com]

What are they defining as Bush's moral and ethical values? I find myself increasingly disenchanted with the fellow, although that's mainly to do with his incompetence and putting various interests above the good of the Republic.

That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight...

[just-the-ash.livejournal.com]

1. Go to which church? Did the poll include, I dunno, devout members of Asatru pagan or Gardnerian Wiccan groups? I bet you a donut that you'd get rather a different result there -- so why should Odin-worshippers be turned into Thor losers because some Christians agree with one jackass?

2. You might well get a similar result if you polled Harley-Davidson riders. If that proved to be the case, would you also call for the instant revocation of all motorcycle licenses?

3. Then, what about the faithful Christian-church-attenders who don't agree that the baboon-in-chief is in synch with their moral values? Scratch an anti-war protest, find any number of Quakers and Unitarians. Granted, Unitarians are perhaps the least organized of "organized" Christians, but nominally Christian they remain.

4. And then you've got the Anabaptists. Or we do. The Amish farm some damn good produce! I don't want to lose that!

[pyesetz]

They avoid defining his values by asking "are his values the same as yours?"  Even after everything that's happened, frequent church-goers still say "yes".

I dislike Bush, and have since his Fascist "you're with us or you're a terrorist" comment, but what I really hate are the people who claim to be Americans but still support Bush, who is the most unpatriotic anti-American president ever.  Nixon, for all his faults, was still a patriot.  Bush Sr., though a closet Fascist, did not rule as a Fascist because he had a sense of propriety that his son clearly lacks.

It shouldn't be surprising that Bush is incompetent and is losing all his wars.  That's how Fascism always works.  It's all about using nationalism as a cover for looting.

Re: That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight...

[pyesetz]

Losing my religion
I like that song.  It is an excellent treatment of the feeling of stage-fright.

1. Non-Christian frequent church-goers are presumably a miniscule fraction of the survey, so removing them wouldn't change the numbers much.

2. I'm kidding about "banning all organized religion".  Banning things is stupid—it just creates an underground economy.

3. The whole problem with bans is that they throw out the babies along with the bath-water.  The government *should* encourage users of incandescent lamps to switch to compact fluorescents.  But banning incondescents will just drive the users underground.  Imagine if the government had banned vacuum tubes because transistors use less power.  All the audiophiles would become criminals!  It's bad for the country to have large numbers of people who feel that they can't live their lifes without breaking a law, especially one that's stupid and draconian and overenforced as a propaganda measure (e.g., reduced roadway speed limits "to save gas") because this leads to cynicism.

4. The Kitchener-Waterloo area of Ontario (where I'll be moving) was originally settled by Mennonites.  It still has a lot of German influence, but apparently there was a massive wave of Irish immigration at some point.

[farlo.livejournal.com]

Technically, the poll could be correct if you assume that most church goers have general feelings and confused moral values - just like Bush. And, most of them would get the specifics wrong - just like Bush. How many christian church goers can even name all ten commandments? Even something that basic gets lost - just like Bush.

... and this is the land we give them, and these are the hands we give them ...
- Land of Confusion, Genesis

[xolo.livejournal.com]

The "with us or against us" policy was, I think, one of the wisest and most judicious foreign policy initiatives I've seen in my life. If our client states aren't prepared to act in our best interests, then there *should* be adverse consequences for them to bear. The fundamental problem was that Bush wasn't prepared to follow through on it. He cut special deals for Pakistan, he cut special deals for the Saudis, and for others as well. He thinks, I believe, that if he treats the barbarians as equals, they'll respond with gratitude, instead of trying to take advantage of the situation.


I don't think it arises so much from a deficit of patriotism, as from a misguided optimism. He does honestly believe that he can make friends of these people. He doesn't understand that he's being taken advantage of. Much like Carter, the man has turned out to be a well-meaning fool.